It may have been a Saturday, but about 100 of us older folks crowded into the upstairs sanctuary of Sandpoint United Methodist Church March 7 to hear leaders of six local churches discuss why they support the separation of church and state.
Reverend Catherine Lyle’s opening prayer included these words, “Once again, we find the world using your son as a weapon and not the humble peaceful servant you sent to spread the good news, that God loves everyone … We call upon the Holy Spirit to sweep through the hardened hearts of our times and love like you did as you forgave the sinner dying on the cross next to you.”
After thanking chair Linda Navarre and the rest of the Bonner County Human Rights Task Force; assembled faith leaders, Sandpoint United Methodist Church, and the North Idaho Peacekeepers Alliance, Lyle introduced Dr. John Lawrence, retired University of Idaho professor. Lawrence, who is on the board of the task force, gave an introduction to Christian Nationalism that was comprehensive and easy to understand, based on the applause he received when he finished.
The Reverend Steve Neuder read Trinity Lutheran Pastor Andy Hinderlie’s prepared statement because Andy was home with the flu.
“As I hear so often up here, ‘We don’t want the government putting their laws on us,’ so the separation of church and state would seem to be something everyone would agree upon,” Hinderlie’s statement began. “To answer, having a strong separation would free the faith community from being held to government requirements that may not correspond with a church’s vision and or theology. For example, government could decide who can and who can not have help from the church’s funding that could include who they deem unworthy or unacceptable (think LGBTQ+, immigrants legal or otherwise, homeless, etc.). Being separate allows churches to serve the broader community without government overreach that may be from a different theological view of helping others.”
Later in the session, Pastor Lyle spoke about House Bill 764 in the Idaho Legislature that, if passed, would criminalize services provided by churches like hers, who supply weekly free meals to as many as 100 people every Thursday. “These people are seeking food, communication and love,” she said, “and we’re called by God to help our neighbors.
“We’re mandated to resist evil in all forms, and when bills like that come from legislators calling themselves conservative Christians, I will choose my God first.”
After the meeting, she repeated what she had said to Idaho State Senator Jim Woodward about the bill. “No businesses in town are expected to card customers, explaining her concern that churches might have to “card” recipients of these meals or be penalized for not checking the citizenship of those they serve.
“We have daily issues of government and a continual struggle to do what we need to do to help people,” agreed retired Episcopal Church priest Reverend JP Carver. Referring to the Episcopal Relief & Development program that his national church runs to help people in need, he said, “The latest was the North Carolina hurricanes where the biggest contention was not with the people of North Carolina but getting work done in spite of what the government had to say.”
First Lutheran Church Pastor Duane Fister explained that he had come out of the New Apostolic Reformation, and it is neither a privately held church nor is it connected with a denomination. “They have no formal membership or central doctrine,” he explained, just a loose, network-based “stream.”
He said they preach that they have a divine mandate, and the decentralized structure allows anyone to claim that God has told him or shown him extreme views. It overlaps with Christian nationalism and bypasses any checks and balances, which has allowed them to go beyond lobbying to pressure the government to accept their radical beliefs.
In fact, he said, it has embraced the Seven Mountains Mandate, which preaches that all seven areas of our culture (family, religion, education, media, arts and entertainment, business, and government) in this country must be taken over and run by church leaders with their particular set of Christian beliefs.
Reverend Barbara Rolph of the Presbyterian Church (USA) explained that in several capacities of her career with the church she dealt with legal issues with laity and clergy, which varied from embezzlement to sexual misconduct. She stressed that serious matters like these are resolved best when churches are part of denominations, which have accountability structures on local and national levels.
In contrast, “some churches just ‘pray about it’ and there’s nothing wrong with prayer, but God gave us brains to use.” This brought laughter, and heavy applause when she ended with, “The scandals of the megachurches of the 70s and 80s came from no accountability.”
Independent private churches within Christian nationalism, though, have no checks and balances to prevent extreme behavior on the part of their lay and clerical workers.
Reverend Carver explained that the Constitution of the Episcopal Church, begun in America in 1607, is almost exactly the same as the U.S. Constitution, which is not surprising because several prominent Episcopalians helped develop the latter document.
“In seminary we learned that we survive as a country and a denomination when we don’t tell people it’s our way or the highway.” Carver explained. “I would never tell you who to vote for from the pulpit, but I will tell you to pull your head out when you are voting. Don’t just sit on your butt; organize and engage with the process because Democracy takes effort, it takes thought, representation and engagement.”
His last advice to the audience was that “We grow when we talk with one another. Listen, not just to react to what the other one is saying but actually listen to what they have to say.”
“We can all agree as Jesus said, to love our neighbor as ourself,” Pastor Fister added, “but I pay attention to myself as the center of my world. Jesus says to bring others into our world and think about them.”
In his closing statement, he reminded the audience that the opposite of love is fear. “Fear is insidious, and it wants us to create boundaries and to attack. Love doesn’t do that. It says I have my boundaries, but take what you need.”
In Pastor Hinderlie’s closing statement, he quoted lyrics from Bon Jovi’s Wanted: Dead or Alive: “Every day it seems we’re wasting away.” Bottom line: “Don’t discriminate; celebrate diversity.”
In her closing statement, Pastor Lyle referred to 2026 being the 70th anniversary of the United Methodist Church ordaining women. “The Lakota Tribes joined us for the first time in 1956 because their tribes long have had women in leadership and value the contributions of women.”
She contrasted the leadership of women in her church with Christian nationalist leaders who even want to prohibit women from voting in the future.
Friends leader David Britton explained that in his Sandpoint Friends Meeting (the Quakers’ service) “Quakers have testimonies we believe in and all have direct access to knowledge of the sacred, divine spirit. It might manifest as the still, small voice within as we sit together in silence.
“What makes us grateful in the silence are calls to action n the world, acts of peace, speaking truth to power, equality, integrity, sharing our resources and doing what’s right,” he said. “Before and during the Civil War, Friends were prominent abolitionists but then some felt it was a distraction. Then, later, more of us became activists, and in the ‘60s and ‘70s we were involved in nonviolent civil disobedience against nuclear bombs, for instance.
“Now we feel the threat of Christian nationalism’s male-dominated theocracy in our government. They’re exploiting economics in favor of the rich not the needy in the name—but not in the spirit—of Jesus. So get out and vote against Christian nationalists.”
“Today, we need to begin putting our ethics, faith and moral beliefs to work in the streets and in the voting booth to build our community,” Britton said in his closing statement. “Moving from the Spirit to the action that goes with it, through acts of love and connection with one another.”
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